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lionSpyre
Joined: 07 Sep 2015 Posts: 113
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Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 1:32 pm Post subject: Slith Rescue Mission (Think Tank) |
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Hey everyone,
I wanted to open up a discussion here about Sliths. From what I've gathered from some older discussions, their lack of prevalence in the game, and from my personal experience with them, I think they could use some help. I think maybe a successful template to start with is the minotaur, who is another playable monster race in AR, but one that is widely successful. Towards that end, I would like to think of Slith as a dex-focused minotaur. Using the minotaur template, if we wanted to reskin Sliths (pun intended), here's where I'd start:
1) STATS: On the surface, the 22 dex and con with a 20 strength looks appealing. But, couple that with a 17 int and wis, you get a race that is severely lacking with respect to defenses, and has barely average damage output. A minor fix for this would be to raise dex and wis by one. That way at least the con and wis offset eachother equally, dex and int offset, and ultimately they're still suffering with parry at the end of the day. But, at the very least, the 18 wis would give them three practices, and slith have lots of other fun racial benefits.
2) RACIAL CHARACTERISTICS: Minotaurs get a lot of fun racial characteristics because of their large size, affinity for axes, charging, etc. Likewise, Slith get quite a few fun ones as well, but some felt lacking.
- Tail attack: This never felt like much of a difference maker, as it rarely procs and does low damage.
- Lower dirt success (on both ends): This could be a case of confirmation bias, but it definitely felt as though my chance to successfully land a dirt was much lower than my enemies chance to land one on me, after accounting for difference in dex scores of course.
- Shed Skin: I rarely used this. Has anyone else found some success with it?
Here would be my suggested rework of this: take away tail attack. Increase the chances for dirt kick to fail/succeed. Can't really speak intelligently on shed skin.
Anyways, hope this gave people some food for thought. Looking forward to seeing some other suggestions. |
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deioped
Joined: 25 Aug 2014 Posts: 80
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Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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Bring back slith monks... and 24 dex.[/code] |
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Arunore
Joined: 05 Aug 2014 Posts: 200
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Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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Slith is one of my favorite races to play as a Thief. While I don't think they need any racial legacy or stat change, I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to minor tweaks here and there. The low wisdom is the sacrifice you make by playing the race, anyone can one practice and still get a few extra HP's out of it, or increase your skills over time. We must be reasonable when trying to tweak any max stats because a Slith to me seems ancient, draconic, and while not dumb like a giant, they're not going to have a high wisdom either. I think that would be mostly due to their cold-blooded nature and reptilian origin. It's just a different animal altogether.
Shed is badass. It saves your life, and the higher HP's you have (and higher lvl you are) the more durable your skin is going to be. It is tremendously useful at lvl 50.
Swallowing corpses is also badass. You do not need food, so just carry water and you will never ever have to buy food. You do not spend gold on food, you eat corpses.
Dirt Kick - Sliths do have something funny about dirting, but it makes sense as they are reptilian, which explains why they can dirt kick over water, granted it does not hardly ever land, it is still cool. I find myself relying less on dirt kick if I am playing a Slith Thief, versus not. I will play more like a warrior and that in and of itself works out better as a way to place that class in general. 23 dex and up can utilize Thief dirt more reliably, but a Slith should not be landing the same success rates on dirt IMO. Because of their lizard feet bro.
I don't think they need anything, and that they are perfect the way they are. But I'm biased, and I'm not against minor tweaks. The only thing I want different from a Slith is a new class option to pick. |
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Arunore
Joined: 05 Aug 2014 Posts: 200
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Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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I forgot to mention that the tail attack I believe was changed to hit when in full combat advantage. It might be just one of the two, but it definitely lands more when one or both advantages are kept. I think the higher damroll the harder it's going to hit too, but I haven't experimented with that or payed much attention to it in the past. That little bit of damage though is absolutely useful and an added benefit to playing the race altogether. You got a beefy Constitution, nice Dex, and your eyes shield dirt sometimes. You're also resistant to disease and maledictive.
Haha Sliths are actually really pimp dude. |
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Davairus Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 10368 Location: 0x0000
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Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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Where are you getting this info about slith stats from? The helpfile says they have an 18 wis already. They have a 22 con also. This seems pretty good.
I've felt the stats are fine, but it does factor in the tail attacks. If you guys don't much like tail attack (surprising, really, it is free unblockable damage) then how about a "tail defend". This would give you a % chance to dodge equal to your current DEX stat, but greatly diminished if the opponent already has dodge skill also. So it would add extra buff vs paladins, dk's, raged berserkers (all zero dodge), otherwise you need to employ spears, combat styles, hitroll etc to reduce the opponent dodge chance for this to play any significant factor. In my book, this would be an acceptable trade-off of poorer dirt kick. |
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Rothak
Joined: 03 Oct 2011 Posts: 257 Location: Japan
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Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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They have 18 INT, not WIS. |
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Davairus Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 10368 Location: 0x0000
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Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Fuck.. can't fucking read. Thanks Rothak. |
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maeve
Joined: 04 Jan 2020 Posts: 66
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Davairus Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 10368 Location: 0x0000
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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You guys definitely piqued my interest in sliths. I think we can explore the charm vuln they have and maybe look for a racial legacy for warriors or something.
I considered all the stats for a very long time, and I decided I'm ok with them. The only thing is it seems strange for lizardmen to be weaker than humans. I would say maybe a point of strength there, even if it meant sacrificing dex to do it. But that does not look absolutely necessary. As they focus on spear (anti-dodge weapon), it seems better to keep course with these stats making it easier to wail on rogues. The heavy dex is more useful there, and they would not be weaker than human thieves. |
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tayyah
Joined: 20 May 2011 Posts: 597
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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slith warriors, due to their lizard heritage, gain advanced healing from their berserk skill. Like regrowing a missing limb |
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Ashlyn
Joined: 20 Oct 2006 Posts: 291
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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Slith can burrow in sandy(desert) or muddy(swamp) areas, making them undetectable. |
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Ashlyn
Joined: 20 Oct 2006 Posts: 291
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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Also seconded slith monks. |
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tayyah
Joined: 20 May 2011 Posts: 597
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Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:05 am Post subject: |
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Except that I thought slith cannot kick |
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Davairus Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 10368 Location: 0x0000
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Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:39 am Post subject: |
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or survive well in sandy areas |
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lionSpyre
Joined: 07 Sep 2015 Posts: 113
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Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:36 am Post subject: |
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Loving the discussion.
@Arunore - I'd be really happy to see a badass Slith pop-up. In the year+ I've been actively playing again, I haven't seen any that seem memorable, and as I said before, I struggled with the race myself. Again, I attribute this to poor defenses, as it seems everyone and their mother defended much better than I. But I would love to be proven wrong in this regard. On paper, they seem really great, but my experience with them was lackluster.
@Maeve - That's a great example of how good shed skin can be. Seems like the Justice sort of screwed themselves, but using it after a failed dirt or hobble attempt seems ideal. I'll remember that next time I roll a Slith.
@Davairus - I think I can get behind the point of strength, actually, instead of 1 to wis and 1 to dex. It does seem strange that a lizardfolk would be weaker than a human warrior. This would help both damage and defense. |
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Davairus Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 10368 Location: 0x0000
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Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:02 am Post subject: |
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+1 strength sold
get your brainwashed slith backgrounds ready |
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BlackWidow
Joined: 24 Apr 2014 Posts: 484 Location: Yes
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Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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The one particularly "great" slith I can recall within the last 3-4 years was a thief, Ijigoshk. He was rather crafty and I noticed he was quite creative at using his surroundings to his advantage (one time, Conundo entered Tyr Unguld from the north before charge would open doors, and Ijigoshk had taken both the keys and locked him in before finishing him off). From what I recall, he made use of shed skin to escape death quite a bit too (for example if he was hobbled in combat he would use shed skin to escape). |
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