Vote on whether to do this dirt fix

[Davairus]

I'm not sure whether we would all agree that dirt is broke, but I'm trying to improve the game continuously and I think this might be something better.

The proposed change is three fold:
* fleeing while dirted no longer lags
* being tripped sometimes lags the person who was tripped for longer than the guy that tripped them
* a knockdown affect lasts for the duration of trip that prevents more lag skills (the knock down affect will accompany all stunning skills actually) when it ends you visually get up

Here is a few points of why I personally endorse this as being an improvement over what we are doing.
* trip -> followup skill is a more logical way to fight than sand kicking
* its less devastating to trip/skill than to blind them
* dirt-flees helped overpower monks to the point the class needed closing and i want to bring them back
* rangers are now lagging players with dirt and i'd like to get them back to where they were, i.e. not a lagging class (outside bow shots)
* fly can counter this stuff and comes with its own counters, so there's more depth, it isnt just YOLO DIRT and for that matter, flying is actually a buff and it doesnt really make sense that it has an extremely negative affect
* forms auto-dirt is going to rape if we don't change something
* since dirt no longer lags it can therefore go through prot shield and nerf the shamans/invokers a tad

Opponents of this ...what are your counter-arguments?

Vote below to cast your opinion on whether this is better or worse than the current dirt system.

Please don't swarm me with more alternatives, I'd rather just debate this one. We've been trying to fix this for 7 years and this is the best I've got in that entire 7 years. Its been driving me crazy. I think this has a chance of being better, and I just want to know are you for or against. Cast your vote.

[beia]

The only thing I want to say is that rangers do not need any help being more OP. They can beat any other class in this game one on one, hands down. I like that there is no more stumbling from dirt, and that it is all about weapon style and if you master disarm dirt is your best friend now. Trip has always been used only on casters who are dumb enough not to fly but it lags the person doing the trip longer or as long as the person being tripped so it is rather pointless IMO.

Anything to bring back monks, nerf it all!

[Mikoos]

I'm all about these changes, and the trip change sounds like it can be used as sexily as a giant chain bash. and I love anything that screws over clerics.

on the other hand, as a non-elite player, Dirt is the only thing I have used successfully in the past to bring down elite players occasionally. so I'd be happier with the changes if something like abduct were buffed(given longer duration.) and also...omg monks...it's disturbing that i"m writing up a background for one and they're not even out yet.

[Ergorion]

From my understanding, it is already more difficult to dirt kick a flying opponent. So flying is a buff against dirt already.

Dirt kick as a skill doesn't inherently lag the person who gets blinded. The lag comes when someone panics and flees at the wrong time. If you flee immediately after someone dirt kicks you, then you have enough time to recover from the lag and run away. If you had lagged yourself or don't catch it in time, you only have to wait three rounds at most usually to rub that dirt out. During which time you can still use combat skills and/or spells.

If the lag lasts the full duration of the blurry eyes a well, that might be where the OP starts to set in.

The dirt lag is essential to protect those small, high-dex races who can't bash for shit. Trip as it is blows. It's a one round lag in exchange for lagging yourself 1.5. The point of lag skills is that they're finishers. You're not going to finish someone off in one round.

This change could be a suitable trip-for-dirt exchange if the high dex races get a decent chance of getting lagged less than the person they trip. Especially against large sized races.

[Davairus]

OK so it seems like most of us are on the same page about this, and probably the game balance in general.

[Andrael]

My only concern is that dirt going through protective shield, it will dynamically change the way for casters and clerics to play. It will provide fighters/rogues from some help against the auto initiate of spells when they are low health(ie: hellstream and rend life) But most spell casting races already have a decent dex and human ones an average. Considering some spell users are avians or elf/drow along with half-elves and most others are humans. We might see more higher dex races for spell casters to combat the dirt kicking through prot shield.

I personally am one of those people where you probably won't know what the people where I'm gonna say, Do it, but watch it super closely so it does what you want it to do. Like make yourself a few characters at 50 decked out in decent gear and as imms arena each other to see whats wrong. Its a practical way to see whats going on. But again, your choice.

[Davairus]

I'll definitely be reading the logs and analysing with you guys. This is by no means the end of the discussion, just a turning of a page.

These changes are implemented, please raise any bugs or oversights (I know there will be oversights).

[Nycticora]

one thrust closer to monks

[beia]

What exactly is the change for flying and dirt kick? I have not noticed anything.

[Ergorion]

I think bards and rangers are the only classes with dirt kick and no trip.

[Ozaru]

i just killed someone as a mage that dirted me, ehh this change is bad. rangers are going to be even more powerful now that mages can't see where they are going when they flee. Too op imo

[Andrael]

Ozaru, no its not. A mage can word, and the dirt will be gone if they are smart enough to word away from home. OR TAKE THE RISK! TELEPORT YOURSELF AND PRAY YOU DON'T DIE! Or we can you know see your stuff fly everywhere and giggle.

[Ozaru]

Have you even experienced this yourself? I was flying and the warrior was able to dirt me rather easily. So the compromise is instant word from a Mage that doesn't sound very fun for game play. Don't get me wrong if this change was in place a week ago I'd still have my warlord and vahn would be dead. Ah the difference a week can make

[beia]

So pretty much you just nerfed Illusionists and Necros hardcore, since there pets do not assist when they are blind... I think that was very unnecessary.

[Kornhole]

Kind of torn on the fix, after playing a bit. I hated the stumble, because you would eat more murders....but the whole dirt through protective shield SUCKS. Oh well, I will have to adapt.

[Xenyar]

Casters will get destroyed when dirted because of no blind fighting and shit defenses. Flee and make the dirt last longer...or stay in battle and get your shit kicked in. Rangers just got more buff against casters because of this this dirt change... big time. Initiate with dirt against necros and illus every single time so their pets don't assist.. that's too buff as well.

I don't like.

[Davairus]

That's an oversight, like I said it would be. It will be fixed. You can untwist those panties now.

[Faelon]

Having been on both sides of this, it isn't true that casters are owned by this. I see it as a simple balancing. Yes, we have had protective shield for dirt for a long time, but I would ask anyone here how hard they got butt hurt about the change, "Protective shield now deflects dirt." I imagine the cries sounded like this - "OH GAHD! My warrior is now going to die ALL the time to casters/communers. It is quite possibly the end of the fucking world and I am at ground zero."

[Faelon]

The dirt change is a huge gimp for warriors, not for spell casters. FYI. No stumble, equals, shit on my pants he can run for hours. And dirt rubs very quickly on most races that play casters.

[Ergorion]

Gimp for rangers, bards, and rogues.

Warriors and zerkers have plenty up their sleeves already. Dirt is how I got most of my higher profile kills on my bard. Rangers have always relied on dirt as a finisher. And rogues, well, they're rogues.