High Dex/Wis/Int vs High Str/Con

[Mummy]

[Olyn]

You can get 300 hp by wearing 15 items giving +20 hp each. There's a few +50 hp items out there, not to mention some of the +hp sets.

[Mummy]

Yeah, I did those. I didn't come out 1300 post-equipment.

[Mummy]

[Nycticora]

He's referring to the way armor class gradually stops preventing attacks completely and moves to being only damage resistance around the level 30s. In low levels, armor class actually deflects attacks (it's what causes a 'miss' damage message)

[Clifton]

I'm also pretty sure that dex affects mv regen. Running out of mv sucks.

[kento]

Fireball, dav has stated that he is not going to simply change things back. So why don't we try to be constructive, think of things that might make things better across the board, than bitching about what is done? I think that maybe making the secondary stats have a higher impact would be nice, or maybe give dex a slight buff to parry/shield block also. Just brain storming here, but that's the way gems are found. Stop bitching and fighting for the sake of it, and make suggestions.

[Davairus]

I don't mind people being misinformed, given that our helpfiles don't give out all this information. Not like this is a bad conversation to have, although it does kind of seem like he is just puffing hot air.

But, with elves, all you have to say to that is "autosneak" and any argument about their stats is over. Flee murders with that silent movement rules. On any giant I would definitely equip a -6 hitroll -6 damroll weapon and never take that off. No can defend. This isn't rocket science. If two races were equivalent on the field you'd pick the one with the autosneak and safer vuln 9 times out of 10. If not, tell me why you wouldnt..?

Also, regarding closing in on larger opponents. Nope, not in martial arts. They'd be able to use elbows instead, which is certainly not worse, so you would not want to do that. Size matters. That's why there are weight classes, and the champions are always huge dudes that cut 30 pounds. Outranging opponents is a REAL thing. Exploiting their own range advantage and opponent over-aggressiveness is often how agile fighters become champions. But this has nothing to do with elf and stone giant. Its just a dumb thing to try to argue a dex buff from, thats all, because its completely wrong. I'd have thought most mudders were nerds and would get bullied in high school, so they'd have understood that a bigger kid was still going to just take their lunch money no matter how much karate they tried to learn.

And lastly, remember these races are from books. There is a tendency for the pretty races - elves, especially - to be elevated to John Rambo power levels in books and movies. The orcs in the hobbit are literally fodder and their best bad guy got beaten by a girl who rarely fights. Please do not bring that bias into AR too. Its dangerous.

[Fireballe2]

[kento]

Fireball, quit fucking calling Dav dishonest for having an opinion on the game that HE RUNS. He isn't saying OH MY GOD YOU ARE THE MOST BIASED FUCKER. He is saying that we need to carefully evaluate WHY we think the way we do. Autosneak is immense, and if the drow or elf removes THEIR light also, then it negates the basics. Warriors are not the only classes for these. Drow have low wisdom, elves, dramatically low con. Please offer a resolution or stop arguing for the sake of argument, man, and try to be productive, or keep your flaming to yourself.

[Davairus]

I said the elf hp was low and needed better def, and I gave it to them. I never said the giant hp was high. It isn't high because they 2 prac and 2 pracs per level. They also have really bad def because of the low int/wis. They are more able to overpower peoples defenses through strength but they don't defend well either. This is not a situation where I want to give the high int/dex guy even more hitroll so that a giant can't defend anything.

Like I said, misinformed. Either that or you cannot handle the cerebral load needed to understand all the quirks of these races. I have a bachelors degree in physics and I am able to do it, don't question that I can. That said, I don't think you are able. There are a lot of ways that giant nerfs get sneaked in through the backdoor and I'm sure you are just looking at hit/dam and large size with your elf which is way tankier and way better offense than you are giving it credit for.

[Nycticora]

I never said they should be playing with winter rares. I specifically said they should be playing with soloable non-winter rares and you argued with me about it.

what the fuck is your problem

[Fireballe2]

[Ergorion]

[Fireballe2]

Talking about the link being related to physics, Erg.

[Davairus]

I stopped reading at

str+int=parry
con=shield block
dex=dodge

Because you are COMPLETELY WRONG about all of those assumptions. I have never said this bullshit on the forum.



VS Parry, is strength. So the more strength you have, the harder you are to parry.
But to actually perform a parry, you also get a bonus from your wis. And it is not half of your wis, its all of it.
That is why a fire giant, despite a 25 str, does not parry any better than an elf. Because 25+15 and 18+21 is a 1 point difference.

VS dodge, is dex. With the defensive component being Int. giants have a 16 dex and a 15 int. They are shit at dodging. Their total is 32. Elves rule at dodging because they have a giant int and a very high dex. Their total is a whopping 48.

Giants are very good vs parry, which you can weapon advantage and disarm away anyway, while elves are very good vs dodge, which is not easily made up for. Its exactly the case that what elves lose in strength they can easily make up for in dex and weapon advantages. While a giant has to rely on his strength to land some hobbles and weapon advantages work against him because of his vulns. He truly has brute force approach while an elf truly has a finesse approach, and we worked very hard to figure out how to get here. That lower hp on elves is very needed to stop them from being easy mode. They don't need a hp soak to forgive their mistakes that way.

Shield block is WIS+con. Not just con. Again, what giants seem to gain from con they lose in wis. 16+23 is 39. Look at elves. 21+16 is 37. This is a minute difference. There is a major gap between elf tanking and giant tanking.

p.s. If you post a giant inflammatory wall of quote text again I am just going to ban you.

[Fireballe2]

You have actually said int affects parrying and wis affects shield block. I also said wis affects shield block.

[Davairus]

No parry is wis. That's easy to remember from just knowing gnome invokers are uber. Please re-evaluate the rest of your arguments yourself, I am not going to go through them.

[Fireballe2]

[Dogran]

Fireball. I am not reading anymore of your walls of text. Piss off. When you can play some NOTABLE characters and PROVE with characters that there is a problem, then you will have a leg to stand on. Until then? Piss off.