The Great Hybrid Debate

[Fireballer]

my only point with the ratings is that Iendlir is extremely competent, a real good pker, yet he's still 10, and all the other paladins are on the bottom..

[Slade]

http://abandonedrealms.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4138&highlight=daelon

[Fireballer]

what conditions for Daelon? Ubergeard 24/7? One of the best players? Gangbangs? For one it sounds like a superb tracker, indicating newbies are dead meat.

[Davairus]

http://ar.invokation.net/logs/view.php?id=4963
- obviously that guy gets shit on by RNG, its only supposed to drop you by about 25%-30% concentration. its either this or he didnt bother to train his spells. probably working as intended in any case. maybe the penalty is too high on untrained skll %. i would like that hard capped so it doesnt put you below a 60% skill rating, but otherwise it looks fine.

http://ar.invokation.net/logs/view.php?id=4961
- a prepped necro wins a fight, whats the problem? you dont just brainlessly spam fireballs to kill a necro, you have to summon him away and use pass door and other tricks. this log is mind numbingly badly fought.

http://ar.invokation.net/logs/view.php?id=4983
- caught with sanc down. that's really dumb. same thing that happens to mages ,healer, probably even rogues that are being careless like that. "Wasn't expecting him to be in town" this player does not have the paranoid mentality necessary to play an evil pk'er. rule #1 never get caught. novice mistake.

http://ar.invokation.net/logs/view.php?id=4962
- i wish i got to fight necros that were retarded enough to open with blind on a melee-high damage class. this necro does not know how to play a necro. the level of skill here is laughable.

http://ar.invokation.net/logs/view.php?id=4971
- opening with the wrong spells (poison/curse give the other dude a FREE round of attacks in retaliation, see above comment) and also allowing one's self to be attacked first over and over and over and over, making a pretty easy-looking fight into a quite difficult struggle. why would he just let himself be attacked repeatedly like this?


Beyond the first, I couldnt see anything in those that looked poor besides the play. Will try to get around to the others soon.

[Dispater]

Paladins are fine, when i was playing my <50 human pally, i had no problems taking on fights with evil pinnacles and winning them. Almost (stupid RNG) even beat Groq's armed-to-teeth duergar shammy on level 46, and that was during the time where paladins were especially gimped (no shield stance shit etc.).

It's a players fault imo, if you want easy way out (eg. crying to devs coz you're terribad) then play WoW or other carebear shits, otherwise LEARN THE CLASS YOU PLAY, everyone and their grandma is a fucking one-trick-pony and occassionaly some bright people like Slade come a long and show how it's really done.


DKs on the other hand are much more gimp, now with stallions they may actually be good (dunno, not playing and can't really base opinions on some truly-noob logs). DK's need a remake imo.

[Fireballer]

[Davairus]

[Fireballe2]

Sorry, I never implied i was cream of the world. I'm simply stating the options of hybrids are poor at best. Every single fight "proving otherwise" is some really unusual circumstances that can't be described because you plunked down what you call "the best gear available", yet I can show that the warrior did worse.

And who tried to cast mals on a necro? Necros are there to be flee murdered, like all caster classes.

As to a spell like fireball being OP, if you miss it because you're not already in combat, or they flee right before you cast, you're getting a free round of damage on you. It has serious drawbacks anyone smart should exploit, apart from just standing in a room with a mob for some newbie to hit with their AoE.

http://ar.invokation.net/logs/view.php?id=4971 Look at the damage here. Mutilates. Taudon wasn't even that uber equipped in this fight.

Here's "best in slot" gear for the warrior you linked:

[Dogran]

As usual your talking out your butt, and don't understand mechanics. In the situation with Worvaz, its GOOD VS EVIL with the evil having PROTECTION. That means that worvaz damage was seriously nerfed. Rebuke is a cabal related ability you don't need to know about that. Taudon IS evil protection doesnt work against him if your also evil.... DUH

[Ozaru]

This is why I don't play hybrids and it isn't because they suck.

Paladin:
1. No dirt kick which means I have to chase and chase and I hate to chase
2. Divine sac I hate the fact that i have to blow mana for extra dam
3. Just too damn hard to rank up to 50. I usually have the worst luck with this, I make a paladin everyone in range is evil. I make a dkn everyone in range is a goodie.
4. Limited weapon selection and armor selection especially with a low pbase so low rares. If every ailgn had a treant thews set id be more apt to place goods and evils because I hate losing rare eq.

DKN
1. I would only play a drow simply because of the bad ass dirt kick
2. Exp hole is sick and honestly with the low pbase potions are too expensive after rank 36 getting 150 per kill above rank 40 cuz ur groupmates are clueless is just too much to deal with.
3. Rank 42 everyone wants a piece of you.
4. I haven't tried a dkn with the unholy frenzy change maybe I would like it because I hate casting things that wear off during a fight that can screw me over.

[Olyn]

radiance, thews, and beast should be about the same

[Ceridwel]

[Esivole]

Beast is way superior. #myopinion

[Ceridwel]

Yes...but on the flip side goodies can request each of the items in the Radiance set. Evils and Neutrals are stuck having to kill for theirs.

[Olyn]

Those thews numbers don't seem current. Also, a lot of the individual beast pieces don't give hit/dam on their own. A comparison of all bonuses of the sets, along with number of pieces needed, would be more accurate. Radiance will be a little off, because I just made some tweaks to prepare for the upcoming Solace replacements.

[Ceridwel]

[Tiqa]

[Esivole]

wrong kind of protection. not protection from legion, but the spell 'protection' instead.

[Davairus]

That's really ignorant fireballer. I showed you a fight where numbers were scaled as big as they go, but the gear and skill level were equal. If it seems cherry picked, its because few players will ever produce a really decent log. Its very rare to see a true clash of the titans like this. Usually the guys who know how to get the dark-knight this geared will go on a six month raping newbies spree with conservative quitting out done on top. You, in particular, gave me unmatched noob fights, which if you think about it, either of those two players in the log *I* posted would have steamrolled on their best day, and could have probably killed them afk. Sure you can say, oh well, thats not possible without the gear, but then tell me how do you get gear? You can ass-rape newbies who can't defend their gear, or you can roll Justice and get it handed to you. You gotta bottom-feed to get your momentum going. In other words, you cherry pick your opponents and never fight at disadvantage. DUMMY! Play the system and profit from it properly, they're not the class for honorable players.

You need gear to make warriors work, and you need gear to make dark-knights work, so showing off rubbish logs where they don't have it is obviously going to make both of those classes look like underperformers.

Some of the things I have seen pre-nerf... Lazrin anybody? I watched him kill 4 knights at once, solo. I'm not kidding dude. He was fighting 4 on 1 with a dark-knight and he killed all 4 of them, and he did so comfortably. Dark-knights that outgeared their opponents simply too much damage. What we have NOT done is reduce that damage potential at all. The same lethality is still there. What we DID do is remove dodge so that they can't just tank 4 man gangbangs and win anymore. We decided philosophically that we don't want a single player being able to win 3v1 fights by tanking them. Thats why we have stuff like hobble, and the shield block chance reduction for clerics (this was targetted at shamans). IT wasnt only hybrids that got the nerfhammer - everybody did.

Again, what you need is the gear. Nevermind what gear your opponents have. YOU need gear. And you need the right gear. Sometimes that means wearing +hp items to survive vs multi opponents. GASP, not straight hit/dam? Imagine that... actually having stuff in your sack and swapping gear for the kind of opponent you're fighting..

Just look at how much damage the dark-knight can do to the warrior. I mean just look at THAT. So what about a couple rebuke? Its a drow dk like you wanted. Its a shitty low level charmie if you like. He could have brought Overseer Mechanus or something. Nobody is stopping you from joining Justice club with a dk yourself. Nobody is forcing a warrior to wield wild weapons vs a Justice either. Maybe that is a disadvantage he didnt have the right items to overcome, or maybe he felt tanking rebukes was worth it? These are choices players must make before they enter fights. Getting these choices right separates the good players from the bad ones. Its something you can go back over your logs and look at, and say "Gee, i shouldnt have used that weapon" rather than say "OMG I lost because of skill X which I could do nothing about! OP!" as they do with most MMOs.

Dark-knights can easily do more damage than any other class - they have almost all the weapons and third attack, dual wield, which gives them the lions share of the melee damage output. On top of that they can fireball which is the most damaging afflictive spell. And on top of THAT they have pets and unholy strength/frenzy. Its enormous! Its a ridiculous amount of damage. No class in the game can match them. Not an illusionist with 3 dupes, not a necromancer will full zombies, not even a fully geared warrior. Just think, how does an invoker compare to a dark-knight. Well lets see, the dark-knight already has invokers most damaging spell, fireball. Then from there, its all just massively stronger melee, and bash/trip to use to finish people off. And as lop-sided as that is, an invoker gets what, protective shield? Yes! They get a defensive spell, which they are dependent on for surviving. Oh my god one decent spell to save them. They're *still* required to use saves to guard against a dark-knights dangerous maledictive spells. They can get silenced and from there all they can do is try to run faster than the dk can track. Do you think dark-knights have a disadvantage or an advantage against invokers?. I don't think this question deserves even discussion ... its one of the most lop-sided fights in the game. Look through the class matchups properly and think up how to beat your opponents. Only really rangers have the right tools to cause serious trouble for dk's. And thats only when they get panthers. In the low levels, there is no real match for a dark-knight, because two-handed weapons outdamage every other weapon type (dual wield needs to be close to mastery to outdamage two-handed, which comes with no skill % required at all, and on top of this the two-handeds have stronger parry vs dual wield anyway - what a joke.), and they have set parry to go with their two-handed weapons. So they're basically warriors with fire/iceball like your brief log shows. There isn't another class that even comes close. If you got a set of Winter eq on a level 30-40 dark-knight, the only way to lose that is to disconnect.

[Erlwith]

It seems like you guys are wasting your breath with this fireball

i mean he did say a major drawback of fireball is that people can "flee before you cast it"