Ninjas

[GodOfWar]

I played a ninja a looooong loooooong time ago. Never ever really got whooped unless it was some kinda cracked out giant who snuck up on me while I was ranking.
Hardly ever used assasinate either, even before it got gimped. The trick to playing a class like that, like the thief, is by using your head. A smart ninja will be deadly whether he can assasinate or not.

None of you probably remember Miko Sano from way back when but he woulda whooped ALL of U! Muahaha! *cough*cough*choke*.....damn cigarettes...

[Nekhuh]

This is maybe a dead subject but thieves have a definte advantage over ninjas. It is in all instances will be the thieves fight if started by the thief. The vanish is all nice and dandy but if someone can stalk, it's useless, and in some areas it's useless. Thieves and ninjas alike have the great ability to put people to sleep with far ease. Noone disputes the fact that thieves can do it easier. Ninjas while someone is sleeping can blind dust, poison dust, and assassinate. Blind is now a useless spell for the most part. Easy to get rid of. Poison is not a threat to a skilled thief. Grapple never in my life hits. It's about worstless, I dont know what is wrong with it but it is not to par with bash and bodyslam. Assassinate is now, not worthless but hard to land, with even a minor confrontation before the strangles success will not even be an option. They have plenty enough weapons. Now thieves i believe can leave you in a much worse state while sleep. Stolen sack, stolen purples stolen flying scrolls, stolen everything in the inventory easily. that gives the thief at least a free half life attack and the oppenent no purples to fall back on. on top of such, they can steal the light, rings, weapons, shields and bracers with easy. this leaves the ninja in say half attack and damage or armor and lack of defensive skill. Given that the ninja is an avian like all love to say, He would be blinded without even a dirt kick. so the thief can come in and murder and get the blind/not blind advantage, as well as the ninja will not have a weapon, purples or anything else, if both are avian then the stalking in it self is the key and after the fact of the confront. Ninja is left half naked like he had died and thief has more purples and proably what he wanted from the prey in the first place. As to counter this, I would say give Ninjas pry in a minor since, of the weapons. I believe it is rp'able for the fact that the person is sleeping and to take a weapon away isnt thievery so much as disarming and necros would be too clusmy for that. But thief over ninja every day of the week.

[Davairus]

Just play a thief if you think they're so priviliged.

[GodOfWar]

As I have played a few ninjas in the past...and almost took mine to 50 before I got too lazy to finish it off, I can speak from my experience as a ninja.
Ive fought many thieves, warriors, berserkers, shamans, illusionists, sewer rats, whatever whatever and whatnot. And I can confidently say that the only thing that really scared me was a Necromancer running around at 50 who by some cruel immortal joke was also in my pk range.

The only thief that EVER really gave me a problem was a legion duergar. Cant remember his name but that friggin club he kept carring around stung a bit. Never killed me, and I sure as hell never killed him, but if you play smart as a ninja, instead of trying to play on all their supposed tricks that you have never mastered you'll have no problems with anyone other than the Other smart players.

Your level 50 illusionist has just been +++ASSASSINATED+++ by a dull wooden spoon.

[Bigbeans]

I have played a few ninjas at 50 and a few thieves before getting this one to fifty and the results are.

Ninjas are better than thieves, even after losing the assassinate deal.

I have spoken.

[Kablamo]

How come no one mentioned backstab

<= 92% : 50% : 100% : 3am =>
flee

Nourrin's backstab does UNSPEAKABLE things to you!
That really did HURT!
Nourrin's second backstab === OBLITERATES === you!
You sure are BLEEDING!
You flee from combat!
You lost 10 experience points.

<= 18% : 50% : 99% : 3am =>

If theif attacks first its blackjack, pry light, weapon and shield and then a good ol backstab, and they win. Theif's have blackjack to fall back on if things aren't going there way.If ninja attacks first they strangle blind, poision and murder or trip, a few rounds go by and the theif cant backstab, they can caltrap and grapple or some moderate damage. Ninja has vanish to fall back on. But it's 25% eq 25% stats and 50% skill in my opinion.

[Davairus]

Looks like he didnt have wimpy set high enough, it worked on the second backstab. Unless that obliterate happened to be 32% of health (which would make his max hp around 700).

* theif attacks first its blackjack, pry light, weapon and shield and then a good ol backstab, and they win

You won't get a perfect run like that very often.

*thief attacks first its failed blackjack
rage
dirt
three rounds later the thief is able to flee now, so he better not have spammed extra blackjacks
bodyslam
bodyslam
bodyslam
bodyslam
..that should be enough I think.

Like I said to pip, play it if you think its so easy (for e.g. most people do fire zerkers at some point, and some people never stop playing them). Actually try to emulate something that works to see for yourself. Realms can always use more thieves, keeps the equipment flowing around. Good luck.

[Louis]

Both are totally sweet.

I have spoken.

http://www.topmudsites.com/cgi-bin/reviews/robboard.cgi?action=display&num=3936

[Seryie]

at that point in time i had around 900+hp. but your right I didn't have a wimpy then, the flee was because I was spamming flee as you can see the last flee I spammed there.

[Stephen2]

I remember Miko.

[Flying Hampster of Doom]

Alright.. so a smart thief blackjacks first... a smart ninja waits for jack ass thief to enter room and dirts his ass. He's hit blackjack already, so you may be able to throw down a trip or a grapple depending on your little thiefies race. Based on where the fight goes, if the thief dirts as well you could simply ikuzachi his ass into oblivion. At level fifty I have seen that spell do some serious ass kicking.. Ninjas and Thieves will own one another dependant upon who is playing them, the circumstances, hit/dam, equipment and so on and so forth.

[GodOfWar]

Wow....I remember Lucan.

Them wuz the days

[pip]

Sorry champ, but if you try to ikuazchi or trip a halfling thief, than your an idiot.

[Phostan]

I will say this about thieves versus a berserker.
Halfling thief we'll say.
Halfling thief has, high dexterity, meaning he right there has a good chance to avoid the bodyslam, AND, as a thief, a save vs. bash/bodyslam, though if it connects, I guess its 3 or 4 round lag since hes small.
A avian thief, we'll say.
Avian thief has, high dexterity, so he has a good chance to avoid the bodyslam/bash, AND, as a thief, a save vs. bash/bodyslam, AND as a avian(or is it as a flier?), another save vs. bash/bodyslam. And if it does land once, he'll probably live long enough that the second bodyslam should statistically miss and he should piss off.
A gnome thief we'll say.
A gnome thief has low dexterity, so hes screwed there, but as a thief he has a save vs. bash/bodyslam so he might get lucky, but if the first bodyslam hits, hes probably dead in a bad way.

Any other thief/race combo's are just a little better off based on their save vs. bash/bodyslam.

In defense of the berserkers versus halfling thieves, I hate you Ramod, you and your storm giant berserkers can die and go to a deep dark hot pit in hell.

Monk can own a thief though.

[Brains]

[DropThat]

Ok so most people are leaning towards ninjas got gimped. well, Im no exception. I travelled with a DK once(lvl 35) and fought those forest warriors or whatever theyre called. theyre a lvl 30-36 mob. Im not sure what they are but, timaran battlement guards are much weaker than them. The point is, a ninja can try to assassinate 200 guards and never get one +++assassinate+++ but while travelling with the DK he started each attack with cleave, and guess what, not only did he chop 6 warriors in half on an average of 10 warriors per one instant kill,( which is supposed to be assassinates avg, but isnt) he once did it twice in a row, and then while he missed the one after that, he chopped the one after that in half!
Of about 60 warriors he got 6 with it, and a ninja can hit 200 guards with assassinate and never land it once. The cleave skill must be 25% chance or soemthing while assassinate is -50%.. Either make assassinate's potential equivalent to cleave or you players who want to be a one hit wonder can play a dk and join assassins cabal, cleaving all your targets. this skill works much better than assassinate. people may try to retort by saying, yoiu can use any weapon even fists to assassinate and such, but you know what, it doesnt help at all to be able to use any weapon if it never lands.
at least make it on par with cleave, because right now its just a waste of practices. this is supposed to be their star skill so it should hit at least as often as cleave in half and it should be any weapon even fist. you people took drastic measures to stop war banner gob sword assassins and now the class in not really anything to fear at all anymore.
Lets see in the all the time since the hit ratio change if anyone can say and show truthfully that theres been a successful hit on a player( or even a mob higher than lvl 8 ) with assassination. come on I dare you.

[Talisman]

Mmm, misinformation.

[Clifton]

Mmm hmm... okie. So. Here we go to try to correct some information. First off, forest warriors are rank 39 mobs. And then... the last time I've seen any player get cleaved in half was,.. um..., yeah, I don't know. I know I saw Harpor assassinate Argoris a few times a while back. Also, there's a log of cleave vs. assassinate. Assassinate won. (Someone should try to repeat that). And umm, hell, throw in a necro to the mix with Powerword Kill. Really DropThat, and everyone else, you should probably get tests going before pulling numbers outta your ass. It brings ='[ to my eyes.

[Davairus]

Be wary of confirmation bias and the law of small numbers DropTHat.

[pip]

Question. Why do such a strong class such as Dark Knights have a one hit kill? Ninja's are not nearly as strong as any other class around, and yet, they do not have a way to do it. I'm such sayin, ninjas are not as totally gimped as I thought, but, they are still not as strong.